A thought on the Krogoth....

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Posted by GIT_Bozza on 09-24-2001 04:51 PM:
A thought on the Krogoth…
It seems that almost everyone agrees that Krogoths, for their cost, are not
worth building.
i.e. For the Cost of a Krogie you can get X amount of such-and-such a unit which
would kill a Krogie in X seconds - therefore a Krogie is not worth building.
BUT - The Krogie does have a certain amount of advantages over any number of
other units in its weight in metal, and those are mobility and concentrated
firepower.
Put 200 Samsons through a choke point and what will happen? Their own carcasses
will block it and thus your attack will grind to a halt - Put a Krogie in the
same position and he will carry out the task of killing that nasty choke point,
he will probably take a hell of a lot of damage in the process but at least you
wont be fighting not only the defences in the area, and to get past your own
dead samsons.
A group of 200 Samsons has more firepower than a Krogie - but it cannot ALL be
concentrated on the one point at the one time, with a Krogie the firepower is
contained in a single unit allowing you to concentrate it where you will.
Finally, it is no doubt absurd to send in a Krogie on its own, every defence
weapon available will be concentrated on it and, despite its 30,000 odd armour
points will be reduced to a smoking wreckage very quickly.
Sending Mr.K in with other units has a 2-fold advantage, 1 is that he lends
weight to the attack, and 2 - if every last weapon the enemy has is concentrated
on taking down him, those weapons will not be killing the rest of your troops,
in effect giving your troops a free shot until Mr.K goes down.
I’ve seen Gnugs and other high class players build Krogies in PD marathons,
whether for a gimmick or for a real purpose I do not know, but you might do well
to consider if, despite their horrendous cost a Krogoth might well be worth
investing your resources in should the right opportunity arise.

“A good clanner is one who will do what he’s told, but
doesn’t need to be told what to do.”
- BulletRat

[This message has been edited by GIT_Bozza (edited September 24, 2001).]

Posted by A_Novice_ToS on 09-24-2001 05:11 PM:

Yes Krogoths DO have their uses - even if those uses dont come about very often.
One prime example of when Krogoths are effective is when you are at the unit
limit. Lets say you are in a large-scale PD game; You are making over +200 metal
and you have fusions, nukes, flakkers, LRPC’s, and massive armies clashing. You
are now stuck because you have the resources to make an army - but the unit
limit simply wont let you make any more units. You are left with the following
options; Self-destruct some units - which can help but you never know if those
MT’s you just got rid of will be needed later on; or instead of massing small
units you build a few krogs as well. Sure - they will use up lots of resources -
but if your stuck on the unit limit anyway that metal will just end up going to
waste.
Oh look i went on for ages and i have no idea if it makes any sense
Nov.

Posted by JoesGeo on 09-24-2001 05:49 PM:

You are very right novice! Also think of Mr. Kroggie as a giant walking shooting
spendy nuke!


If you attemp to arm weapons or raise shields
I will destroy you!
Klingon Captain ST 5


quote:

Originally posted by Warchicken
I believe there is an evil spirit living in my computer, trying to drive me
mad.

Yes, I have that problem too. That spirit is referred to as Windows.

Posted by Bort on 09-24-2001 06:09 PM:

Actually, he’s more like a couple of nukes. He can do the damage of several
nukes, plus, when he dies, he explodes like one.


“I’m not lazy. It’s that I just dont care.” - Office Space

Alcohol, the cause of and solution to all of life’s problems. - Homer Simpson

Posted by The_Lawn on 09-24-2001 09:26 PM:

mom?

Posted by Bort on 09-24-2001 10:57 PM:

HUH? What you talkin about? “mom?”


“I’m not lazy. It’s that I just dont care.” - Office Space

Alcohol, the cause of and solution to all of life’s problems. - Homer Simpson

Posted by JoesGeo on 09-24-2001 11:18 PM:

Who is “mom”? LOL Mr Krogie is very annoying! In air maps that have a divide in
the middle a krogoth can be very useful if you guard it with like 50 vamps! If
it can get through that pass!


If you attemp to arm weapons or raise shields
I will destroy you!
Klingon Captain ST 5


quote:

Originally posted by Warchicken
I believe there is an evil spirit living in my computer, trying to drive me
mad.

Yes, I have that problem too. That spirit is referred to as Windows.

Posted by Storm on 09-25-2001 03:24 AM:

Even a Slasher could be very useful if you guard it
with 50 Vamps.


Wanna have your unit tested?

Posted by The_Lawn on 09-25-2001 07:40 AM:

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm JETHROS!!!jethros are the bestest unit ever IF YOU DONT KNW
THAT U SUCK OK>? flourign flaming gay are wipes

Posted by BLITZ_Molloy on 09-25-2001 08:17 AM:

I’d prefer build berthas at the choke point rather than Krogoths. Faster and
more effective.


Altered Beast | UberCrack Shack | BLITZ Clan
Latest Annihilarity: Annihilarity: Weapon Inspection II

Posted by Chaos* on 09-25-2001 08:21 AM:

Krogs are also worth building if you’re just about to hit the unit limit… You
can’t get the firepower of a Krog in any other single unit.


Furby- The animatronic bastard child of Gizmo and
one of those chickens from the Muppets.


Gone

Posted by LordBeek on 09-25-2001 12:02 PM:

Lawns Madskillz, means even Jethros are a fearsome weapon in his hands.


Proud Member of the TEA
ICQ = 102306818
Their barbarism will stand as their shame for all eternity

  • Tony Blair

im good
15 min bt

Posted by Asis on 09-25-2001 12:10 PM:

Cue PeterC with;

“The Krogoth is a completely useless unit, it’s as simple as that. Only a newbie
would want to build one. Any decent player could tell you that.”


Just kidding

[This message has been edited by Asis (edited September 25, 2001).]


Just kidding

Posted by Storm on 09-25-2001 03:23 PM:

The_Lawn… What the hell are you talking about?


Wanna have your unit tested?

Posted by Bort on 09-25-2001 03:36 PM:

LOL @ Asis, so true, so true.


“I’m not lazy. It’s that I just dont care.” - Office Space

Alcohol, the cause of and solution to all of life’s problems. - Homer Simpson

Posted by SHONNER on 09-25-2001 10:55 PM:

The_Lawn = Fetal Alcohol Syndrome

SHONNER

Posted by deth on 09-25-2001 11:14 PM:

Yeah, the krog is a niche unit, which has SOME uses.
GIT_Bozza, you’re absouloutly right. However, most of the time these uses do not
occur. Thus, the krog is used very unoften.


Full Member of ID, know as deth or t1000 on gbl.
Lifes short, smurf hard >
YYYOOOOOUUUUU IIIISSSS BBBBBBAAAAAAAADDD


Our 39,000 would have probably exacted a heavy, heavy toll on the invaders,
perhaps as many as five enemy casualties to one friendly. - Always overestimate
the enemy…

The Cray is the only computer than can do an infinite loop in 4 hours…

[This message has NOT been edited by Screamer (not edited January 01, 1900 on
00:00 AM)]

Posted by DenimDemon on 09-25-2001 11:36 PM:

…“unoften”…

tee hee hee =)


Listen to good music.

Go To www.turbonegro.com

Posted by Freak on 09-25-2001 11:41 PM:

Lawn: be careful what you do here.


Freak
USER, n. The word computer professionals use when they mean “idiot.”


Freak
USER, n. The word computer professionals use when they mean “idiot.”

Posted by DS_Natas on 09-26-2001 04:01 AM:

U can get banned if u flame PeterC???


HAIL DEATHSQUAD!!!


HAIL DEATHSQUAD!!!

Posted by Bort on 09-26-2001 03:37 PM:

If you could, then this forum would be made up of PeterC and a few others.


“I’m not lazy. It’s that I just dont care.” - Office Space

Alcohol, the cause of and solution to all of life’s problems. - Homer Simpson

Posted by ^^NEO^ on 09-27-2001 01:22 AM:

LAWN you are a real idiot.


you fkg Americans you always have a fkg opinion(supplied by protoform-X)

It’s not an optical illusion, it just looks like one.


you fkg Americans you always have a fkg opinion(supplied by protoform-X)

What a nice night for an evening.

Posted by Wettis on 09-27-2001 01:34 PM:

Everyone keeps forgetting the unitlimit. When you have 498 units, and prolly a
good income too, you might aswell build a kroggie!!

Posted by GIT_Bozza on 09-27-2001 02:08 PM:

Erhm Wettis, did you even read the first few posts after mine? A_novice_Tos
mentioned the unit limit as did Chaos*.

Posted by Haker on 09-27-2001 03:21 PM:

neo we now the lawn is weard

yu jast hav tu ingore hem


i are teh moust puwerfol haker evar


i are teh moust puwerfol haker evar

eht wuz rely meh whu crased teh uBB. i mad eht fel apert

Posted by Masonary on 09-27-2001 03:21 PM:

I just tried the kroggie for the first time against the AI, just for a laugh.
Have to say that watching him go is bloody good fun. Worth building if you are
near the unit limit I think, and maybe sooner, as although you can get more
firepower from a number of cheaper units in a group for the same cost, they cant
concentrate fire in any given area the way that Mr K can. Saying that, il be
buggered if im ever gonna build one in a proper game. Sod that for a game of
soldiers.


I Destroy, Therefor I Am

[This message has been edited by masonary (edited September 27, 2001).]


When the Blind Leadeth the blind
They Bumpeth into things

which is worse, confusion or apathy? who knows, who cares

Posted by FINALE on 09-28-2001 10:06 AM:

Kroggy and other units like it seem to be more for fun, then all out
seriousness. But its all a matter of how good the players are.

Im assuming the best of the best TA players would never dream of using that
unit, mainly because most games are defined before its construction would even
begin.

I guess for newbies, the Kroggy and other units…are fun to play with and
actually very useful. And its a riot and somewhat pathetic, when you use it
against the computer. God knows you have all the time in the world to safely
build it.

On multiplayer, in a field of experts…it has little to no value cause it would
RARELY make an apperance. Only on a field of newbies or maybe some moderates,
would this unit be used, or even be worth it.

Posted by THE_DuDe on 09-28-2001 07:59 PM:

If u build a krogoth then your opponent is too much of a newbie to have good
defenses.


Why can’t the Arm and Core be nice?


I am such a fan of Haker that if I was a woman, I would ask him to take my
virginity and have all of mah bebe’s or something close to it!

My heart goes out to Haker.

Posted by TyrranzzX on 10-04-2001 05:59 PM:

Your forgetting the exponential growth of concentrated power as 2, 3, and 4
krogoths are built and concentrated in a single area. 1 Kroggie won’t stand
against 200 samsons easily. 2 Krogoths can handle half of a 400 samson swarm, 3
Krogoths can handle most of a 600 Samson swarm…10 Krogoths can easily handle a
2000 Samson swarm, with several fullly healthed krogoths left over. Why? Simple:
Firepower per screen is increased exponentially, and range as well as firepower
is compounded. So long as their full range is maximized, the can shoot samsons
as they approach, and if they get in range, use their cannons to finish the job.


Wandering through the night, looking for his
lost soul and imagination. The Great Addicus
searches. For the great ones have taken from
him what was given, and have given to him what
was taken.

Posted by SleepWarz on 10-04-2001 07:19 PM:

Good point…


“Imperials Will Win, You Will Die, Alliances Will
Crumble”
---->X<----
CORE4EVER
713 F1gh73r 0//nZ j00!


There is no peace, there is Anger;
There is no fear, there is Power.
There is no death, there is immortality;
There is no weakness, there is the Dark Side.

Posted by Bort on 10-04-2001 09:06 PM:

One little thing though, you rarely ever see one krogoth used let alone 2 or 3
or 4 or 10.


“I’m not lazy. It’s that I just dont care.” - Office Space

Alcohol, the cause of and solution to all of life’s problems. - Homer Simpson

Posted by Twinge on 10-04-2001 11:11 PM:

Well, if its that late in the game and you actuallyu decide to make a krogroth,
you can porbably afford to pump out at least 2 at a decent speed…

Posted by BLITZ_Molloy on 10-05-2001 04:35 AM:

If your stck on the unit limit you upgrade your resourses to fusions and MMM.
Kill all your wind farms and alot of your missle towers(their not any good in
late game). You then concentrate on building 100’s of Goliaths, Morties and
Rapiers/Hawks.

When you reach unit limit you should’nt let your economy dictate what units you
can build, you should change your economy. Krogoths are a terrible waste of your time and resourses. Unless your
playing stupid ground wars with vulcans banned theres no way you should build
those crappy hunks of metal.


Altered Beast | UberCrack Shack | BLITZ Clan
Latest Annihilarity: Annihilarity: Weapon Inspection II

Posted by SpellBinder on 10-05-2001 08:35 PM:

molloy and others [i don’t wanna just pick on him…hehe]>
you know, i swear, you must have missed something.
the main argument against building a krog is you can get a ton more units for an
equal cost in metal. tru tru. and how often are you going to wait for 100
goliaths to finish before sending them at your enemy?
and who said that if you start building a krogoth you must ceize building
goliaths, storms, morties, etc. certaintly if you are out to build a krogoth
[maybe eve speed build the thing] then you can afford to keep up production on
all other things as well.
but oh boy, if you have been producing an army of goliaths, morties, slashers,
storms, and are just about ready to send your next wave…throw in a krogoth in
there and whatch as it becomes the proverbial straw that broke the camels back.

the argument that if you can afford to build a krogoth then you can afford to
build x amount of another unit is just silly because you will need to send those
units off [most likely to die]. you won’t let them sit in your base doing
nothing waiting for that last one to finish building because they will handicap
the army size you should be sending.


-SpellBinder
Flawed logic is an incredible weapon. Too bad it never hits.
Stormy Seas Forums

[This message has been edited by SpellBinder (edited October 06, 2001).]


-SpellBinder :|: Jester of Spam
Stormy Seas Forums

Posted by BLITZ_Molloy on 10-06-2001 10:01 AM:

TA is about quantity over quality. More cheap faster targets are harder to kill
and one, slow heavily armoured target.


Altered Beast | UberCrack Shack | BLITZ Clan
Latest Annihilarity: Annihilarity: Weapon Inspection II

Posted by SpellBinder on 10-06-2001 08:43 PM:

Originally written by SpellBinder if you have been producing an army of goliaths, morties, slashers, storms, and are just about ready to send your next wave...throw in a krogoth in there and whatch as it becomes the proverbial straw that broke the camels back.

-SpellBinder
Flawed logic is an incredible weapon. Too bad it never hits.
Stormy Seas Forums


-SpellBinder :|: Jester of Spam
Stormy Seas Forums

Posted by ReaperX3 on 10-13-2001 08:59 PM:

The arm penitrator (? Bad English?), is better
than a kroggy, not one on one, but for 20 on one is about fair.


Though We Walk though the Valley, We shall Fear No Evil.

Posted by Shadow252 on 10-15-2001 07:26 PM:

Amen to Molloys comment about Krogoths being a waste of resources.


I frolic in the fields of coolness.

Posted by SpellBinder on 10-15-2001 08:11 PM:

/me laughs out how blatantly erroneous reaperx3’s comment is, LoL


-SpellBinder
Flawed logic is an incredible weapon. Too bad it never hits.
Stormy Seas Forums


-SpellBinder :|: Jester of Spam
Stormy Seas Forums

Posted by Lemark on 10-16-2001 01:28 AM:

Krogoths have their uses…though a bit late. i had good results on core
industrial and an urban map. the urban map was where i found more respect for
the krogoth. we had both built up great defenses on land and against air. the
game last four hours because we were at a deadlock. nukes…no good. LPCs were
pointless because we couldn’t build near enough to the base safely as our air
power was always covering those areas. i ended up using krogoths to break into
this base along with my air power, losing 2 of the kroggies. the last remaining
2 took out his commander who had to run forward to dgun them since he couldn’t
kill them with what units were left. his commander didn’t get killed by my
krogoths firing at him…he died because he got caught in their explosions one
after the other. so yes, i say think krogoths if all else fails. (he was arm
btw.)


victory and defeat are two sides of the same coin. both are worth the lessons
you learn in battle.

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