TAUniverse - Advanced cheating and bug exploitation

xpoy0 · 2009 年9 月 13 日 05:26

Posted by A_Novice_ToS on 02-27-2002 10:31 AM:

Oh look i just cheated on this post as well…

[This message has been edited by A_Novice_ToS (edited February 27, 2002).]

Posted by PelvisRocks on 02-27-2002 01:12 PM:

Novice- "You fail to answer my legit questions each time "

My answer to your question was to read the entire post. Another poster also
suggested that you read the post before you repeat what has already been covered
here.

I am not PeterC and I don’t understand all the comments relating to him stealing
stuff.

Novice- “rules at Tournament Warz” Who wrote those rules? You? When were they
written? Yesterday? I continue to believe you are full of crap. (Attack on
person)

To recap- Two tourney Officiation groups and the board administrator think you
should not be exploiting the bugs I consider cheating. Do I really need any more
support than that? Where is Chris Taylor when you need him?

GF- “Do you think my boobs are big enough?” Me- “Yeah, but I would like you
better without a belly button.”

[This message has been edited by PelvisRocks (edited February 27, 2002).]

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by The Barbar on 02-27-2002 02:28 PM:

He didnt restate what was already said, he posted different rules for a
different tourney. Maybe you need to go and read the whole thread a couple times
because your brain doesnt seem to grasp it all.

What you need is the support of the good players that actually understand TA and
so far you have 0 of those.

[This message has been edited by The Barbar (edited February 27, 2002).]

Posted by A_Novice_ToS on 02-27-2002 03:14 PM:

Well if you need to be bottle-fed on everything;

Tournament Warz Rules

The rules were probably written about 4 weeks ago - im not entirely sure, ask
RipSteele about that.
The same rules (all bugs being useable) was also used for a 2v2 tourney a while
back (Hosted by Spearmint Gum).

And yes i have read the previous posts and the following views/points came up;
1: We should be allowed to play the game how we want.
2: Going on about fallacies in peoples arguments (which in itself was a fallacy
and as such BS[attack on person])
3: Getting something for nothing - which many people pointed out its not for
nothing (micro-time being used, you still have to make part of the moho before
sparking) And yes tcbw you do get more for your money but then it wouldnt be
used if it did nothing.
4: That no matter what you say nothing is going to change.
5: People who use these are cheaters (and at this point i push you towards Pic’s
hilarious STFU n00b movie)

You just have to look at how the entire game flows with and without these bugs -
and notice there really is little change. Now that ive said that you will
probably use the point ‘then why bother using them if they are not that useful’.
My answer is because they do give you an advantage, just like so many other
little things in TA - and when you know how to use them and flow them into your
game it is much more fun.
To TCBW’s point about newbies might not no about these - well we cant have
everything can we? After a while they will learn about them as well so its all
fair, and i would not use these on a new player who had no idea about them - but
then, i wouldnt need to.

[This message has been edited by A_Novice_ToS (edited February 27, 2002).]

Posted by Xavier on 02-27-2002 04:20 PM:

another point following on from what novice said…

good players who know about these bugs tend to play against other good players
who also know about these bugs. newbies who don’t know tend to play other
newbies…

Posted by PelvisRocks on 02-27-2002 04:33 PM:

Barbar- Maybe the good players just appear to be good becuase they lag and cheat

Xavier- I have beaten pic, so I guess your last statement isn’t true. Just
because everyone involved knows how to cheat does not make it okay to engage in
cheating. How many times do we have to repeat that?

Novice- Each of these numbered items rebutts the number in your last post.

I only care to identify you as cheaters
If it is not an argument, that is the way you identify it as NOT an argument.
Go to school. A page of childish insults does not make an argument.
I defined that resources, not time were the key elements built into the
engine. But you are too stupid to understand or never bothered to read the
thread.
Things have already changed. You will be ashamed if you are caught up to your
old cheats in a recording. CBL and PH will actually negate a win. If this thread
stays active, more and more people will read it and less and less will tolerate
this lame behavior. They will also see the ignorant behavior of those supporting
this bug exploitation and not want to associate with them or their opinions.
I offered proof as to why this was cheating. Not some bad web graphics made
by a preschooler.

"You just have to look at how the entire game flows with and without these bugs

and notice there really is little change" : If that was really true you would
not take the time to exploit the bugs or argue for them to be allowed in fair
play. If you attend school beyond the 7th grade they teach you these things.

[This message has been edited by PelvisRocks (edited February 27, 2002).]

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

xpoy0 · 2009 年9 月 13 日 05:26

Posted by Abe on 02-27-2002 04:54 PM:

Strange, in 4 years of TA gaming I never saw anyone called Pelvis, or Pressme,
or PelvisRocks on the internet.

<–Abe–>

Posted by A_Novice_ToS on 02-27-2002 05:05 PM:

Haha you really are dumb arnt you?
Again i say a legitimate point but your idiocy means once again you use your
childlike answer ‘no your just a cheater!’
Its becoming more and more apparant to me and all the other people here that you
have absolutely no idea who a real game of TA plays.
Goto zone and stop joining the rooms entitled ‘GD2 GW’ or ‘NO EMGS!!!’ and you
might noticed how TA is played by real people.
I think you should consider the fact that I am the current form of TA. Me,
Barbar, Pic - WE are the people playing TA now - WE are the current generation.

So as Limp Bizkit often say
“We dont, dont give a fk and,
We wont ever give a fk un,
Until you give a f**k about me - and my generation”

Posted by Abe on 02-27-2002 05:09 PM:

One last attempt…

1% of the TA community accept anything a player is capable of doing, as long as
it is within the game emchanics. All bugs, exploits allowed. I know JR_ is one
of them, but can磘 think of anyone else really.

1% is made of Pelvis. He made a list of what he consider to be cheats, a list
that includes common tactics and very old tricks. He knows he磗 right, so if you
disagree your a cheater, full of crap or using illegal argumentation methods.

The remaining 98% are in between. They belive in agreements (This game says no
sparking, so I won磘 spark), understanding (Game didn磘 say sparking was banned,
so I can磘 blame them for doing it) and tolerance (Hey, he sparked but I won, so
why complain?). And last but not least, they look at gameplay more then logic
and uit stats, they care about what works and what the players want. In this
chategory you find CBL, TW, PH and all the peopel I play TA with.

<–Abe–>

Posted by A_Novice_ToS on 02-27-2002 05:11 PM:

Preach on Abe - preach on.
wonders how long before the oh-so-brilliant Pelvis comes along and shows us how
stupid we really are
But then - im just a 7th grade US school kid arnt i? LOL

Posted by PelvisRocks on 02-27-2002 05:16 PM:

Let me give you some skoolin’, hometoad. Limp Bizkit is a hasbeen band.

Mad TV think Limp is so lame they make fun of them every other week.

My games always have no rules but I never would state- “no cheats” or “no
trainers” or “no sparking”, because I assume most people know better. Not that I
would ever let my opponent live long enough to make a mmm.

Abe- It is more like 50% agree with me. Maybe more if the newbies knew you were
cheating them. I love it when people make up numbers to seem more convincing. I
guess I can do it too.By saying JR is bad, you support all my arguments
completely. I have never seen a player named Abe. Are you swe_abe? Pic has 100
names and symbols. I have one.

I am looking for a perfect world where I don’t have to tell people not to cheat
in my game description. I have already shown you all I need, to set you on the
path to enlightenment.

Wonders why Novice doesn’t realise I already have.

[This message has been edited by PelvisRocks (edited March 01, 2002).]

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by Abe on 02-27-2002 06:02 PM:

I never said JR_ was bad.

Yeah Im swe_abe, that磗 the only Abe in the TA community as far as I know. Once
again, who are you?

[quote]I assume most people know better. Not that I would ever let my opponent
live long enough to make a mmm.[quote]

You assume that, yet you call 50% (your numbers) cheaters? Priceless comment.
On the mmm comment, how about you back up that statement with some 1v1 on PD?

Did that reference to Mad TV sound good in your head before typing it?

I enjoy TA the way it is, I don磘 have any problem finding or playing a game
online. I don磘 mind “cheaters”, I don磘 mind people who want rules either.
You obviously had a problem since you started this thread. In fact, I wonder how
you can enjoy TA with all your concerns, your little crusade against the
cheaters and fallacy hyperlinks.

Maybe my numbers were exaggerated, but they match the reactions in this thread a
lot more then those 50% you mentioned. Where did you磖 numbers come from?

Why don磘 you tell us your online name? You can磘 even win a messageboard
argument, at least show some proof that you won a game of TA.

[This message has been edited by Abe (edited February 27, 2002).]

<–Abe–>

Posted by Xavier on 02-27-2002 06:14 PM:

haha!

nuff said…

Posted by PelvisRocks on 02-27-2002 06:17 PM:

"You assume that, yet you call 50% (your numbers) cheaters? " - Wrong, that
would leave 50% of people that dont think it is cheating but may not cheat.

You sounded smart in your first post. As soon as all of you stop smurfing in
your TA games, I will be happy to say who I am. If I have never won a TA game,
or even played TA, that would not keep me from proving that these bug exploits
are cheating. Only about ten players have posted to this thread and it would be
silly to assume that this in any way represents the opinions of the entire TA
community.

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

xpoy0 · 2009 年9 月 13 日 05:27

Posted by Xavier on 02-27-2002 06:30 PM:

in exactly the same way it would be silly to assume ur views are accepted by the
ta community?

Posted by PelvisRocks on 02-27-2002 10:45 PM:

If you read the thread, you will see that Abe starts quoting numbers and
assumptions. I just countered with my own numbers and pointed out how
unsubstantiated they were. I don’t care how many agree with me, I just proved
that the ones that agree with me are right.

Fell free to prove me wrong with a valid argument.

As I said before, the majority does not prove that something is or is not
cheating, they just condone it. I don’t assume the responses to this thread are
a poll. Actually, most of the posts are repeats by the same people.

This thread should be all about the contents of my original post. Not about me,
my game play, the majority, the demo recorder, trainers, unit imbalance, ground
war rules, or any behavior attributed to newbies.

The closest thing to a valid argument was convincing me that I should include
nano shielding, when the recorder is in use, as cheating. This probably was not
the intended result by those who would have less limitations on bug exploits.

[This message has been edited by PelvisRocks (edited March 01, 2002).]

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by Pic on 02-28-2002 12:24 AM:

like… im blonde… and i suck at ta… but… dont tell me or people that you beat
me… without saying who you are… i dont smurf without telling people who im
playing my real name i change names cause the name fits my mood , if you had any
reason which i dont see why you did… to post you beat me… then id like you
know who you are so i can remember you not beating me thanks…

also… i really dont think these are cheats… cause um… well i know its dumb to
say but… it does take more con units to multi, and it does take… micro to
spark… and really… if you forget about… friggin chris taylor and think about
TA… then its been part of the game for soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo long that
well its just not cheating :\ its not a good arguemnt im sure its as big of a
fallacy as my parents made with me… but… well … whatever bye

[The]-[Pic]┊?

Posted by PelvisRocks on 02-28-2002 12:49 AM:

Pic-“its not a good arguemnt”-you are correct, Sir!

You did not tell me your name before you played me. Your behavior was so bad
that I called you a newbie. So, you are a liar too. I have seen you asked why
you were smurfing in chat, and your response was that you could not get a game
otherwise. So, you obviously choose not to reveal your identity until you feel
it best serves you. Personally, I think people that smurf have something to
hide. You dont want to be recorded losing or cheating. Maybe you only spark
mohos under these smurf accounts ;-).

[This message has been edited by PelvisRocks (edited March 01, 2002).]

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by BLITZ_Molloy on 02-28-2002 02:10 AM:

I’m just going to make the one point that might, just might put this into
perspective

Everybody here has different ways of looking at TA. We have different values
systems and moral standards. We’re of different age groups and nationalities.

Whatever way you look at this your judgement on the matter is subjective. So if
your playing a someone else you have to respect their right to play the game as
they like without screaming cheater and newbie at them if you don’t agree with
the way they play.

Now if your in a clan, or he’s your friend you should come to an agreement about
the thing so it does’nt lead to nasty arguments but at the end of the day It’s
best to let them play as they like. If you don’t like MMM sparkling don’t do it.
If you don’t like them using cocane to help them concentrate on macro then fine,
don’t do it.

But don’t end up like those whining, ignorant protesters that often march the
streets preaching about something thats annoying them. Just live by your own
playing morals, respect other peoples freedom to play TA and just stop all the
flouring .

.::…::ucs::… …::blitz::…::.

Altered Beast | UberCrack Shack | BLITZ Clan
Latest Annihilarity: Annihilarity: Weapon Inspection II

Posted by Pic on 02-28-2002 02:17 AM:

dude, this musta been ages anbd AGES ANd ANGES AND AGES ago… cause i didnt
smurf for AGES and and AGEs and AGES… and also… 2vs2 is not beating one
player 1vs1 … so get off your mom plz

attack on pelvis warning alert fallacy call isle 3.14

[The]-[Pic]┊?

xpoy0 · 2009 年9 月 14 日 02:59

Posted by Pic on 02-28-2002 02:57 AM:

HaHahaHaHaHaHa i am owner of 1st post and second on this page hahahahahha

[The]-[Pic]┊?

Posted by A_Novice_ToS on 02-28-2002 04:09 AM:

Pic i very much doubt this guy has beaten you - hell hes trying to call me and
Abe smurffers too - proves how little he actually plays the game.
Pelvis you are still acting as you are right while everyone else is wrong - dont
be so ignorant.
If you really want to take figures and polls you could goto zone and ask around
amd i bet the results would be closer to Abe’s figres than to yours. Infact -
you and newkid are STILL the only people i know who are actually complaining.
Hell - for all i know your the same guy just smurffing more.
Please just grow up and stop moaning about things you dont understand.

P.S. You ever noticed that the further along this argument gets - the more
people rallied against you?

Posted by Tigermoth_Tos on 02-28-2002 05:06 AM:
hehe…
this is one funny thread. Now i can’t ever hope to be able to participate in
this argument with the same skill, presence, and intellectual supremacy as the
great ‘PelvisRocks’.
I would however like to point out something I抳e noticed here.

(and this is just my opinion from playing ta online for 4 years)

All the good players (nov, pic and abe being the main 3, all of whom could beat
99% of the players on this board with out without 慶heats? disagree with this
thread. The few who agree however seem to be newbies or unknowns. It seems to me
that the newbies on tau are quick to support anything that tries to attribute
the huge difference in skill between the top guns of ta and the … how shall i
put this… retards, to something other than experience and intelligence.

Anyone who knows anything about this game understands that being good has jack
to do with utilising bugs and everything to do with things that can抰 just be
written down. Things like, as i said, experience, quick thinking and fast mouse
clicking

To summarise, this thread stinks of sour grapes, yes there are bugs in ta. But
this game has been around for ever and they just add spice to it… yes they are
cheating but if you are a half decent player then you can nullify this by
microing better, thinking faster and… CHEATING BETTER THAN THEM!

I’d love to see how lord Pelvis demolished this reply… i’ll be waiting !

Tig

Posted by Offspring on 02-28-2002 07:18 AM:

Even though I do find some of the bug exploits to be really unfair, I can only
put down to complaining about them down to just wanting the game to be made
easier for the beginners. Its not that bad an idea, but Pic’s totally right that
they’ve been around for so long now, they are part of the game.

Like it or not we have to accept they exist and are used, and there’s nothing
that will likely ever change that.

Offspring - Webmaster for Nexus Entertainment and Phoenix Worx

Project Hardpoint - the future of RTS

Great leaders use words to solve conflicts.
Words like carpet bomb and nukes.

Posted by NewKid on 02-28-2002 11:04 AM:

Some people are action gamers : they only play TA as an action game and just
want to win fast a short game, no matter the way, or the lag, or whatever. They
like small flat known maps and to know something the other guy doesn’t. They
don’t want their strats or bug exploitation to be known by other players… Some
of them don’t use some strats because they fear an opponent could record them

Others are wargamers, wanting to play a realistic military simulation. They like
large unknown maps, rules making the game more realistic, and would prefer no
bugs and everybody sharing the same knowledge.

Strangely, the first kind of players seem to be more insulting with people not
thinking like them, but are full of respect to so-called experts, no matter what
they say… Some of them being extensive bug-users or bad laggers… But they
seem to believe (yes, it’s a faith…) that lag or bug exploitation has no
effect on a game…

No matter the realism of the game, they invent stories of swimming things being
not above water, and not under water (I personnally tend to think that
swiming things are both under AND above water…) They refer to the Creator of
the Game and the Mistery of His Intentions… They think only know, old TA
players have the right to speak about TA…

For “serious” wargamers, ie. people playing for the fun and the realism, things
are pretty different…

BTW I’m not a smurf, I’m not Pelvis, and we are not the only ones thinking that
TA would be beter without the bugs… But well, action gamers are making more
noise than wargamers… And maybe old TA players all seem to love bugs because
people disliking it have been disgusted by their behaviour… And don’t talk or
don’t play anymore…

Some chicken! Some neck!

Posted by PelvisRocks on 02-28-2002 11:35 AM:

Malloy- “But don’t end up like those whining, ignorant protesters that often
march the streets preaching about something thats annoying them.” - I am sorry
to see you come down against Freedom of Speech. My father and grandfather fought
and had friends die on 2 continents in the name of it. My whole point here was
that it was not subjective. I showed proof that a resource or invisibility was
gained for no resource expense.

Tigermoth- "… yes they are cheating " - Welcome aboard!

Novice-“You ever noticed that the further along this argument gets - the more
people rallied against you?” No, I refer you to Tigermoth!

Pic- "this musta been ages " -you seem to have selective memory and “Yo moma!”

offspring- " I can only put down to complaining about them down to just wanting
the game to be made easier for the beginners" - No, I want the game to be easier
for everyone. These silly exploits make the game more complicated because you
have to watch a recording to see them.

To repeat myself for page 7 - If I am the only one that thinks this is cheating,
I can still be right. Luckily I am not alone and CBL and PH tourney officials
agree, among others. The people that agree with me don’t feel the need to rant
here.

[This message has been edited by PelvisRocks (edited March 01, 2002).]

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by ID_Zeymatisold on 02-28-2002 11:36 AM:

There comes a point in the life of doing something where no matter how much u
practice u just aint gonna get any better , take me for instance , ive played
guitar for 20+ years and i realized after about 3 years that i wasnt getting any
better ,i was pretty good , but i new that i was never gonna be in the same
league as say , eddie vanhalen or joe satriani etc etc , .
one of my best friends plays in a chart band , and wipes the floor with me when
he plays the guitar , but he aint ever gonna be as good as the above mentioned,

my point is this … its a good job that every body is not the same standard in
everything as every body else… cos if we were the world would be a very boring
place …
so please except the fact that u are a crap player and take advice of medicore
players… except the fact that u are a mediocre player and take advice from
average players etc etc …

cheats (or bugs) are there for everyone to use… so is TA, but, not everyone can
manage them as well as every body else
I saw a game with novice once where someone used a trainer on him … hmm
brawlwers 2 mins into game , says novice … guess who won lol lol

Posted by PelvisRocks on 02-28-2002 11:45 AM:

Thanks ID_! I agree, that they should take advice from me no matter what my
skill level. I have beaten trainer users, too. People that need to cheat are
usually very poor players with certain physical shortcomings.

Screamer checks drive space for page 8

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

xpoy0 · 2009 年9 月 14 日 03:00

Posted by Tigermoth_Tos on 02-28-2002 01:51 PM:

Pelvis- i love you man

Posted by Xavier on 02-28-2002 02:44 PM:

know what i find interesting? in another thread pelvis is saying he likes the
.sharelos feature of the recorder yet here he says he doesn’t like when ppl get
something for nothing.

i think his so-called ‘proof’ is not that at all (wait its been proved
irrelevant already hasn’t it)

owell if someone is determined to call ppl cheats cos he can’t beat them, i
guess they will go on calling ppl cheats no matter how much anyone can show them
they are wrong.

Posted by PelvisRocks on 02-28-2002 04:23 PM:

No, Xavier you still have proved nothing except that you didn’t read this
thread. You are refering to ANOTHER thread about the demo recorder.

Earlier in THIS thread, I said:

“This thread should be all about the contents of my original post. Not about me,
my game play, the majority, the demo recorder, trainers, unit imbalance, ground
war rules, or any behavior attributed to newbies.”

Gives Tigermoth his beer.

[This message has been edited by PelvisRocks (edited March 01, 2002).]

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by Xavier on 02-28-2002 04:31 PM:

sorry wasn’t trying to prove anything.

Posted by Pic on 02-28-2002 05:00 PM:

Most of us did not mention lag being a GOOD thing to exploit on purpose or say
that its a fair thing to have… i personally think it sucks horse ****…
oh well whatever

Also about underwater things, You can shoot adv torp launchers with mts… and
they reside just under water… but peopel dont complain when you cant just
TARGET them… as you want to with pels… and core Mts… since skeeter missle
fire the same way as a MT… but are so low to the water… and since core MTs
are like SSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOO barely under water… the missles miss untill you
are very close… i dont see people complaining about that?

pels are under and above that is why you can even hit them at all… just be
thankful for that

Pelvis: what does watching a recording have to do with playing the game and
making it easier?i mean damn why do you have to watch? obviously being concerned
of a players bug usage… would seem to be what makes it harder cause you want
to watch the demo JUST to see that…
also… I dont have a selective memory… i beleive you are thinktank, and if you
refer to the game on PW, me and cieko vs you and tcbw , wheremy lab blew up at
about 3 minutes for no reason… and you call that a win cause i wanted to
restart and left , then well um thats pretty ERRRRR STUPID mmmmkay…

also Why do people refer to others that happened to just make a tourney? or some
ladder? a dumb ladder might i add… you think we are defending it? we are just
laughing , sorry man but im speaking for me and most of us i know here, we dont
care what da ehm you think about us… we are just trying to become buzzsaws and
have fun saying YOUR MOM!! and yo dad and yo greeeseeeyyy gressseeyyy granny!

yup yup yup, and i have made clear that this thread is about skill and newbs,
and saying YOUR mom lol and such haha

[The]-[Pic]┊?

Posted by Abe on 02-28-2002 05:15 PM:

“As soon as all of you stop smurfing in your TA games, I will be happy to say
who I am”

Novice doesn磘 smurf, Xavier is Xavier, I had the same name for 4 years and
never changed it, Barbar is iWIN (whoo, big secret revealed) but since he sticks
to that name he磗 not a smurf either. Who are you refering too? Your the smurf
on this board son. You磖 the one hiding behind a fake nick.
And the excuse is great. Because others do something, you do it as well? Reminds
me of something you said a few pages back

Funny how you retreat and say that your skill level is irrelevant, after saying
that you only lose to cheaters, and that you don磘 let anyone live long enough
to get a MMM up. How convenient that your online name isn磘 known eh?

“CBL and PH tourney officials agree” No…they don磘. You have several “cheats”
that isn磘 in their rules. Even better, did you notice what players were at the
top of those ladders and rankings? A bunch of cheaters! Omigod, how did they
make it up there without sparking?

[This message has been edited by Abe (edited February 28, 2002).]

<–Abe–>

Posted by Pic on 02-28-2002 05:29 PM:

Abe he is refereing to the fact that he dies to soon for them to have a moho…

[The]-[Pic]┊?

so obviously they arent alive

[This message has been edited by Pic (edited February 28, 2002).]

[The]-[Pic]┊?

Posted by PelvisRocks on 02-28-2002 07:45 PM:

Smurfs: Barbar/* and pic/*

Pic- You quit on your partner just because you accidently self-d one of your
units? Have you no shame? That sounds like newbie behavior? Who were you playing
against? Did they make fun of you? Maybe they were newbies too. What is “PW”?

A person that never played TA could see my point with just a description of how
the units work.

[This message has been edited by PelvisRocks (edited March 01, 2002).]

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by Xavier on 02-28-2002 07:53 PM:

lol@thinktank

u shouldn’t say that other ppl smurfing is bad when u are doing it urself

[This message has been edited by Xavier (edited February 28, 2002).]

Posted by PelvisRocks on 02-28-2002 11:01 PM:

Smurfing is something you do when you are playing a game. It matters in a game.
It is a sort of cheating. It gives you the edge of knowing your opponent, his
play level, and his habits. You are totally unknown to him and when you cheat he
has a recording of a unknown cheating.

I have one ID here and one in my TA games. Over the years I have had 3, usually
because the one I use has been taken by another player.

As much as Pic and barbar say, I see them tell other people completely different
information when asked who they are. I have played IWIN before and never knew it
was Barbar and he never bothered to tell me when I asked. I ask all Rawdawgs
their other aliases before I play them.

I gave it some thought and now I see how Pic maintains a perfect record and wins
in tourneys. When he is losing he just has “technical difficulties” and tries to
get a restart. I remember kids in grade school that did that. I am glad he
confessed it here. I bet the tourney officials have a real hard time enforcing
loses instead of restarts. Most players are mature enough that they let him get
away with this little scheme. I wonder if this game he quit was ranked. I
snapped to the fact that tcbw was the guy who made the site that has all the lag
data I quoted in another thread.

The nice thing about anonymity in a BBS is, the discussion is limited to the
subject and avoids all this “I can beat you” noise you cheaters seem to love so
much.

Abe- “after saying that you only lose to cheaters, and that you don磘 let anyone
live long enough to get a MMM up” - I was joking. “As soon as all of you stop
smurfing in your TA games, I will be happy to say who I am” - was also a joke
and probably impossible.

Xavier- Prove me wrong. That was the point of the original post.

What map is “PW”?

[This message has been edited by PelvisRocks (edited March 01, 2002).]

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

xpoy0 · 2009 年9 月 14 日 03:00

Posted by BLITZ_Molloy on 03-01-2002 01:44 AM:

I’m not against freedom of speach I’m against bloody ignorant minority lobby
groups getting attention and interfering with other peoples lives.

e.g I’m big into hunting. A few urban idiots are out protesting to governments
and they’re going to get us banned. In reality in fox hunting 99.9% of the time
foxes don’t get caught - their much too clever and fast for hounds. But media
and idiots blow the whole thing out of proportion.

Thats what your doing here. Sparking mohos does’nt arise very much and the rest
of the bugs are practically worthless.

.::…::ucs::… …::blitz::…::.

Altered Beast | UberCrack Shack | BLITZ Clan
Latest Annihilarity: Annihilarity: Weapon Inspection II

Posted by Pic on 03-01-2002 01:45 AM:

The gamne was about 3 friggin minutes into it wasnt ranked… and there was no
point i was not losing my lab blew up …i dont play in tourneys so i dont see
wtf you are talking about?i have no records anywhere on any gaming service? so
what is this perfect record you talk about?you think i go around playing people
as a smurf? heh… thats some wicked assumptions i barely play at all… go play
starcraft if you dont like people changing thier names there is so many you wont
ever play the same guy twice most likely… you think its cool to say you beat
people when i quit 3 mins in a game that was ours to win till my lab blew.i dont
see how someone of your age can see this as a logical way of saying one sucks or
you beat someone… dont ask me what map pw is when you no perfectly well what i
write of…and also i didnt tell jack all to people about my names… you asked me
and i told you straight up dont gimme yer bs lies plz, if i make my game name my
real life name? am i supose to say im someone else? heh… end

[The]-[Pic]┊?

Posted by A_Novice_ToS on 03-01-2002 02:23 AM:

I have just noticed yet another time when he has contradicted himself; he says
earlier that force-firing guardians/berthas/buzzsaws is perfectly fine. But oooh
nooo - that doesnt include when I’m playing a Marathon against him and I have a
vulcan up with which he would be killed with if i was allowed to range it.
Just as i suspected earlier - hes just saying these because he cant handle the
game.

P.S. If you didnt know barbar was iWin then your a complete fool - its like not
nowing that BF is rawdawgologist. You DID know that didnt you…?

Posted by PelvisRocks on 03-01-2002 02:59 AM:

Novice- I think ranging is fine. When did I play a marathon against you? What
map? Why would anyone build a Vulcan? An array of Berthas is a lot better.

Why is the map “PW” a secret? Is this like PeterC stealing?

I thought BF was Rawdawgc and was banned from the zone. I actually assumed the
whole clan exchanged IDs and played for each other in contests. Doh!

[This message has been edited by PelvisRocks (edited March 01, 2002).]

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by Abe on 03-01-2002 05:32 AM:

Cheat - To act dishonestly; practice fraud.
To violate rules deliberately, as in a game.

Quote from the dictionary. Im sure you agree with this definition.

If I make a game and tell everyone who joins that +ATM is allowed, that cheat
command (defined as a cheat by Cavedog) would be allowed and therefor within the
rules. In fact, use of the +ATM command would not be cheating at all.

There must be rules to violate before you can cheat. And Pelvis, your rules are
no better then mine, or Pic磗, or JR磗. Difference is, more people play by our
rules. CBL, PH, TW play by our rule definition. Perhaps a few differences, like
sparking or EMG limits, something that won磘 change the outcome of a game
anyway. As long as all players are aware of the rules.

Did you catch that last part? As long as all players are aware and agree on the
rules, the cheater will be the person who violates those rules.

Your cheat definitions is just another, and not very popular, list of rules.
Anyone could make such a list, you can磘 expect everyone to agree, but that
seems to be your problem Pelvis. As I told you a few pages back, and repeated
several times, very few players play some kind of no holds barred TA. Everyone
draw the line somewhere.
Everyone has rules, and when someone brakes them, he becomes a cheater.
I have played groundwars, I know Novice plays a marathon every now and then,
Barbar joins tourneys on TW. Three different set of rules, that the player has
to accept. And they do, and they don磘 cheat.

All your logic and cheat definitions Pelvis, is just like coming here saying
“Using the color Red is cheating”. Of course you can make rules against using
the red color on your units. Your TA copy is your property, you payed for the
game, play it however you like! You have a right to do so.
But, you will probably have a hard time finding opponents. You probably won磘
win tournaments and climb on ladders. You won磘 enjoy the game as much, because
so many people around you “cheat”. You磍l be thinking and arguming TA, more then
you play it.

<–Abe–>

Posted by PelvisRocks on 03-01-2002 09:19 PM:

I am not calling for rules. I don’t expect everyone to agree with me. I created
a test to be applied to your personal ethics. If you apply the test you can
determine if you “cheated” as defined above. “Something for nothing” or “cheat
gravity” In a computer mediated game you can cheat the game engine. In a
multiplayer game you would cheat the other players if you cheated the game
engine. The definition of cheating can be broader than one dictionary source.

[This message has been edited by PelvisRocks (edited March 03, 2002).]

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

xpoy0 · 2009 年9 月 14 日 03:00

Posted by Xavier on 03-02-2002 01:04 AM:

how silly - u want me to prove something for which there is no proof either for
or against.

i think i’ll just not bother if its all the same to u.

Posted by BLITZ_Molloy on 03-02-2002 07:05 AM:

But the lines impossible to draw. My flash tank might lag slightly and end up
killing 2 extractors when it should have only got one. Thats ‘something for
nothing’

.::…::ucs::… …::blitz::…::.
Roach: Allah!!!.. BOOM

Altered Beast | UberCrack Shack | BLITZ Clan
Latest Annihilarity: Annihilarity: Weapon Inspection II

Posted by PelvisRocks on 03-02-2002 10:48 AM:

Malloy- but noone can determine “intent”. Actually it is not because as I
defined “something” is a resource basic to the game. So you would be fair by two
standards. The inability to determine “intent” and the fact that a flash was
designed to act that way and the only unexpected factor is “lag”. Noone can read
your mind and tell if you created that laggy flash solely to exploit lag. I
covered this earlier in the thread.

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by Screamer on 03-02-2002 11:12 AM:

Pfff.

Hey Pelvis, the name “Holier than thou” ins’t registered yet.

Screw that noise.

The taste of truth is bitter. | You can lead an idiot to
knowledge, but you cannot make him think.

The beauty of the world has two edges, one of laughter, one of anguish, cutting
the heart asunder.
Virginia Woolf

Posted by PelvisRocks on 03-02-2002 03:17 PM:

Screamer, I think you misunderstood my “tone”

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by BLITZ_Molloy on 03-04-2002 01:29 AM:

Your tones been like that throughout the thread. Next thing your going to be
preaching fire and brimstone telling us how we shall burn in hell for all
eternity.

I don’t see these problems in the engine as cheats any more because they’ve been
there for 4 years, everybody knows about them and I and anybody else has no
problem in explaining them to newbies if they ask.

This is like saying that pornography is wrong and you think it should be banned

complete and utter nonsense. If you don’t like the stuff you don’t go down to
the shop and purchase it. It’s a case of freedom vs censorship and I think I’d
rather live in a free community.

.::…::ucs::… …::blitz::…::.
Roach: Allah!!!.. BOOM

Altered Beast | UberCrack Shack | BLITZ Clan
Latest Annihilarity: Annihilarity: Weapon Inspection II

Posted by Annihilater2k1 on 03-04-2002 12:31 PM:

Noobs dont know about all of the TA bugs Molloy.

The weak have one weapon, the over-confidence of those who think they are
strong.

Posted by PelvisRocks on 03-04-2002 02:40 PM:

This has nothing to do with pornography or free speech. I think only cheating on
your wife sends you to hell but I am not a biblical scholar. Noone knows you are
exploiting the bugs unless you tell them before each game. I have never heard of
any player doing that.

zealot- a fanatically commited person.

[This message has been edited by PelvisRocks (edited March 04, 2002).]

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by BLITZ_Molloy on 03-05-2002 01:48 AM:

I’ve never hidden the pelican bug from anybody. I always tell the newbie a few
things and give him some tips on expansion and unit choice.

I never use the bugs on newbies anyway. I’ll be bored and trying off the wall
stuff.

Just because someone is ignorant of something doesn’t mean everybody should have
to change to suit him. We do however have a responsibilty to teach him things
because that just being helpful.

.::…::ucs::… …::blitz::…::.
Roach: Allah!!!.. BOOM

Altered Beast | UberCrack Shack | BLITZ Clan
Latest Annihilarity: Annihilarity: Weapon Inspection II

Posted by tau’ri01 on 03-05-2002 09:51 AM:

Just as an aside… the games been out for how long? And now isnt sold in the
shops? Can only be bought on the internet? And you still believe there are
newbie people out there? Perhaps there are, but i would guess there arnt more
then 10 slight exageration, but you know what i mean. Most newbs are probably
smurfs messing with your mind. Or not… make up your own mind and dont
flaaaaame me

Its something unpredictable, but in the end is right…

Posted by PelvisRocks on 03-05-2002 01:57 PM:

I have new people join my games almost everyday I play. I can tell they are new
because of all the things they are missing.

My point about announcing your intentions to exploit bugs before every game was
not concerning just newbies. At least half the players don’t assume you are
exploiting.

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by tau’ri01 on 03-05-2002 03:15 PM:

Not having something doesnt make you a newbie… i know ppl who i very sure arnt
newbies, and dont have the fark… yes you ppl know who you are on gbl raaaa on
you nah just kidding i dont mind that much but really, if youre on gbl and you
play as core, you should say if you dont have the fark or scarab or whatever…
thats a form of cheating too i guerss… so this post kinda ties in with the
topic… blah

Its something unpredictable, but in the end is right…

Posted by NewKid on 03-06-2002 08:41 AM:

There are still people beginning to play the game, or people beginning to play
online. I recently played one guy saying that that was his first or second game,
I thought it was his first game online… but well, he didn’t even know about
mexxes… he was making mm’s on the metal patches

Some chicken! Some neck!

xpoy0 · 2009 年9 月 14 日 03:00

Posted by snuka02 on 03-06-2002 10:53 AM:

Experts really don’t play n00bs anyways… 99 percent of the time experts will
play experts who already know all about the bugs. Normally only the mediocre
players or friends will play with the noobies. So I’m not sure why you’re
getting on all these experts arses. No expert enjoys playing with new players
because it’s no fun for them. You’ll notice experts will name their rooms
experts.

Also, who cares if an expert plays a newbie and uses a few of the low low low
microscopic bugs. The newbie has much more things to worry about than those
bugs. He probally doesn’t know how to expand or even resource manage. So quit
focusing on newbies and experts.

Only the newbies don’t know and they have more to worry about. Bottom line.

[This message has been edited by snuka02 (edited March 06, 2002).]

Posted by LordBeek on 03-06-2002 12:25 PM:

And i hope any “newbies” that are reading this thread, and have heard how to
work these bugs use them.

This thread has been very educational in highlighting some cool tricks for newer
players to use, to get them started in exploring all of TA`s little tricks.

Proud Member of the TEA clan.

I would like to be able to admire a man抯 opinions as I would his dog - without
being expected to take it home with me

im good
15 min bt

Posted by PelvisRocks on 03-06-2002 12:41 PM:

I hope players of any level, that have been directed to this thread, now know
how to determine if they have been cheating or cheated.

page 8!

thinks next page will fill with redundent posts

[This message has been edited by PelvisRocks (edited March 06, 2002).]

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

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xpoy0 · 2009 年9 月 14 日 03:00

Posted by Annihilater2k1 on 03-08-2002 04:50 PM:

I’d better start then.

The weak have one weapon, the over-confidence of those who think they are
strong.

Posted by PelvisRocks on 03-08-2002 07:39 PM:

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by Forklift on 03-09-2002 12:25 AM:

I think the bottom-line question is this: Did Cavedog intend for the special
situation (sparking, line bombing, etc.) to be available to the player? If not,
it’s a bug in the game, and using it is cheating. If so, it’s an easter egg, and
the player has every right to exploit it.

“There is no greater oppressor than someone who thinks they are being
oppressed.” --Richard L. Davis, mensnewsdaily.com

Posted by BLITZ_Molloy on 03-09-2002 03:40 AM:

Oh come on! Line bombings no cheat! The planes have a limited reload time and
your only utilising it to it’s full potential.

.::…::ucs::… …::blitz::…::.
Roach: Allah!!!.. BOOM

Altered Beast | UberCrack Shack | BLITZ Clan
Latest Annihilarity: Annihilarity: Weapon Inspection II

Posted by spuddy on 03-09-2002 06:07 AM:

Every player can spark? Every player can line bomb? Every player can dgun subs
underwater? Every player can multi reclaim? Every player can choose to use pels
if they want?

Whats the problem??? You can all utilise the so-called bugs in the game. I don’t
see cavedog releasing a patch that has altered these problems so i prefer to
assume they are meant to be!

[qu] I am your father! [/qu] Darth Vadar, Empire Strikes Back
Email - [email protected]

Posted by 2Nazty4U on 03-09-2002 08:45 AM:

Oh my GOD ! im speachless…

My name says it all.

BTU ownz U

My name says it all.

BTU ownz U

Posted by PelvisRocks on 03-18-2002 02:47 PM:

Cavedog closed before they could fix the bugs. Switek fixed them.

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by LordBeek on 03-18-2002 03:08 PM:

Cavedog released many patches over a period of 2 years or so, finishing with
3.1. They probably did know about them, but decided it was best to keep it as
is.

Proud Member of the TEA clan.

I would like to be able to admire a man抯 opinions as I would his dog - without
being expected to take it home with me

im good
15 min bt

Posted by PelvisRocks on 03-20-2002 11:54 AM:

“probably did know about them, but decided it was best to keep it as is” No,
they were not allowed the resources to maintain TA as they were devoted to TAK.
Let’s not guess if we don’t know what we are talking about.

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

xpoy0 · 2009 年9 月 14 日 03:00

Posted by sloppyjoe on 03-20-2002 03:40 PM:

LOL, did you work for Cavedog Pelvis? Then you don’t know jack flour either
about what they were thinking, so don’t rudely interrupt people who make
reasonable assumptions about the game and reflect the attitude of the average TA
player who couldn’t give a damn.

I for one don’t think Cavedog could’ve cared less about these subtle “cheats”
and neither do I. You’re incessant whining isn’t going to affect how the many
people who still play TA go about their business. TA is still a game that above
all requires skill and tact in order to master your opponent. Your trying to
justify your position that cheaters (who pretty much encompass most of the TA
community by your standards) ruined TA has become bland and unconvincing.

No offense to Switeck, but if every respectable player seemed to agree that TA
was unbalanced, they would’ve either downloaded the bugfix along with the 3.1
patch or abandoned TA. In the meantime, us cheaters will enjoy our game while
you have nothing better to do then post to every reply to justify your
precarious position.

Posted by PelvisRocks on 03-20-2002 11:52 PM:

Yeah, you should D/L bugfix. Unless you worked for Cavedog you certainly have no
business responding. But it is public knowledge that CD knew of these bugs and
did not mean them to be part of the game. I don’t mean that Cavedog’s intent
should govern your own moral choices. I made my ethical test of “something for
nothing” for that purpose.

[This message has been edited by PelvisRocks (edited March 20,
2002 on 11:55 PM).]

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by Xavier on 03-23-2002 11:40 PM:

ur test is retarded.

if everything that came under “something for nothing” was banned, u would have
to ctrl d ur comm as soon as the game started cos everything is cheating.

Posted by PelvisRocks on 03-24-2002 03:21 PM:

Xavier- if you really believe that, you have a reading comprehension problem and
should ask your doctor for medication.

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by A_Novice_ToS on 03-24-2002 04:42 PM:

Yeah but according to ThinkTank i only win games by using my amazing lag

Posted by PelvisRocks on 03-24-2002 07:43 PM:

Novice - wrong thread

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by Xavier on 03-27-2002 02:01 AM:

i think its pretty obvious that its not me who has the problem…

Posted by BLITZ_Molloy on 03-27-2002 03:59 AM:

Pelvis - go play with Bugfix players. If you can’t find enough people to pay
attention to you and share your views you can come back and play OTA. Just quit
moaning to us about it and either go or shut up.

UCS | Pirate TV | BLITZ
“To be this good takes AGES”

Altered Beast | UberCrack Shack | BLITZ Clan
Latest Annihilarity: Annihilarity: Weapon Inspection II

Posted by 2Nazty4U on 03-27-2002 05:39 AM:

I wish he could just go away…

My name says it all.

BTU ownz U

Posted by AMBorn on 03-27-2002 11:07 AM:

End of Thread…Definitely

Posted by Annihilater2k1 on 03-27-2002 01:06 PM:

You are mostly on about MMM sparking but Dud you all know that you can spark
anything that has to open up first? e.g Radar, TF etc…

The weak have one weapon, the over-confidence of those who think they are
strong.

Posted by PelvisRocks on 03-27-2002 08:29 PM:

As Screamer said, sparking anything is a bug and with my ethical test, all would
be cheating.
(sorry for paraphrasing)
To Recap the arguments:

“This is war and anything goes” - Wrong because with that logic you would allow
trainers and other hacks.

“It is a part of the engine, so anyone can exploit it” - Wrong because Anyone
would have to spark every unit and do other very odd and time consuming tests to
find these bugs, if they didn’t have access to the few sites on the web where
the bugs are published.

“All the experts and most TA players use the exploits, so it is okay for me to
use them.” - Ethical decisions are not based on a majority. I have provided an
ethical test and you in your everyday life make ethical decisions. In my
experience, about 1/2 the TA players are either unaware of these exploits or
refuse to use them.

In the 8 pages of this thread, these three were the only arguments made against
the determination that this is cheating. The forum moderator agrees that this
was cheating. The rest of the comments were fallacies of argument, such as
attacks on person(Newbie) or Red herrings (you could never build anything).

It seems that when the few people that post here disagree with someone, they
prefer personal attacks rather than valid arguments.

[This message has been edited by PelvisRocks (edited March 27,
2002 on 08:33 PM).]

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

xpoy0 · 2009 年9 月 14 日 03:01

Posted by Fish-Bulb on 03-27-2002 10:11 PM:

Your trainer analogy is flawed, if not wrong. You can apply the “anything goes”
to trainers, but the point is that trainers are not within the constraints of
the game. “Bugs” are. You cannot fairly compare the two. More importantly, you
could equally say that by your reasoning an unbalanced unit is cheating, if we
are to accept that something no one else has any qualms about, that many others
use, and that everyone has equal access to without external intervention is
still a cheat. o_O

Think of Chess. The “en passant” rule was probably added to the game long after
the game itself was made. That may mean in a tiny proportion of games that a
winner is different (same with TA, where the bugs mean one in every thousand
games the winner is different). But this rule is not a cheat, because anyone can
take advantage of it. You just have to accept a game as it is. You can make your
own rules beforehand, or you can deal with whatever the enemy throws at you. You
can’t pretend to accept everything about the game and then complain later.

Posted by A_Novice_ToS on 03-28-2002 07:50 AM:

Stop talking and just PLAY THE GAME!

Posted by PelvisRocks on 03-28-2002 10:50 AM:

Bulb- Unbalanced units are subjective and you cannot determine that the “intent”
of the player that chooses to use the unbalanced units was to exploit any bug
associated with the unit. I limited my discussion to bugs and did not include
any units such as the pelican in my discussion. Also remember that I said the
the exploit of some bugs was not cheating. Check the thread and you will see
that I addressed this before.

As far as trainers and programming hacks being a part of the game constraints,
the idea of “anything to win” in war, suggests no constraint and opens up a “can
of worms” that most players would not tolerate. By definition, this
justification of player ethics is not constrained in any way.

“en passant” - is a rule in another game. I am not talking about making any new
rules but, instead, making ethical choices.

Welcome to the debate Mr. Bulb. It is good to see some new blood here.

[This message has been edited by PelvisRocks (edited March 28,
2002 on 10:52 AM).]

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by xRelativityx007 on 03-31-2002 06:49 PM:

Sigh, at first, Moho sparking was a bug, but just like so many bugs out there,
many game developers decide to leave it in as it offers some strategy.
AN example of this is strafe jumping in quake, which was first a bug but was
never fixed as it is strategic.

Im sure nanoshielding was also an overlooked bug, but you see now, how
nanoshielding adds strategy to this game

Posted by PelvisRocks on 04-01-2002 11:07 AM:

Nanoshielding feels all wrong to me. The first time i saw it, i felt cheated.
With that said, you cannont determine that it was not the intent of the defender
to build that metal storage in that spot at that particular time to store metal,
so it is not cheating. Shielding a bert with windmills for every shot of enemy
bert certainly was not intended by the game designers.

Cavedog did not leave these bugs in because they thought it added something to
the game. I am sure you have no evidence of this. The stopped supporting TA
during Kingdoms development and ran out of money and resources during the
kingdoms release. Finally they were purchased and development was closed. You
also did not get a lot of other units because of the cut in budgets.

The most curious thing about CT leaving the company was some loss in network
performance. In kingdoms the multiplay does not work nearly as well as TA. My
guess is CT or some others fired, were the only ones that understood that code
and it was rewritten.

[This message has been edited by PelvisRocks (edited April 01,
2002 on 04:13 PM).]

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by tau’ri01 on 04-01-2002 11:53 AM:

Dont try and tell me that if im attacking someone is seriously going to think…
hmmm, i’ll just start laying down metal storage. If you attacking, and the other
guy does that, then you know hes nano sheilding. And its not a cheat. If you
want a storage place for metal, you dont just happen to have by accident, placed
it right in front of something. I didnt explain that well, but im sure someone
at least got the picture. And it cant be a cheat… because who is anyone to
say (within the sphere if the game) at what point the structure becomes solid?
The idea of the nano lathing thingy is that the nanothingys build the structure,
and if a bb shell or rocket treis to get past, it might well hit the nano
jobbies… well, yah boo sucks to you miladdio.

Its something unpredictable, but in the end is right…

Posted by Flyboy on 04-01-2002 02:26 PM:

Relativity - They DID fix/eliminate strafe-jumping in Quake3 at one time, in one
of the major patches. But they put it back because of complaints. I thought it
was a shame, because it’s the expert players that were able to take advantage of
it the most, and they are a tiny minority of the ppl. who buy the game (maybe
they were also the loudest complainers).

The Zone: FlyboyTA

Posted by PelvisRocks on 04-01-2002 03:10 PM:

Another justification of nanoshielding that a non player friend of mine had, was
that the act of building something is so basic to the game that to have a
building shield you can never be cheating.

I wanted to see if a non-player could understand the ethical argument as well.

[This message has been edited by PelvisRocks (edited April 01,
2002 on 04:11 PM).]

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

xpoy0 · 2009 年9 月 14 日 03:01

Posted by NewKid on 04-02-2002 03:43 AM:

These arguments can be applied to MMM sparking : if it’s there because it “adds
strategy” (whatever THAT means…), how comes it can start by accident, in a
fight? If it’s cheating to start by firing it, what about building it in a
exposed place? Undecidable
That’s a bug, for sure : it doesn’t test if it’s finished before to change the
“open” state… Classical side-effect of object-oriented programming… That
simplifies the management of complicated objects, but makes easy to forget some
consistancy rule…

[This message has been edited by NewKid (edited April 03, 2002 on
01:52 AM).]

Some chicken! Some neck!

Posted by Screamer on 04-02-2002 02:45 PM:

Newkid, better put the buzzwords away before you seriously embarrass yourself…
it is a bug yes, but it has nothing to do with object oriented “programmation”
(whatever the heck that is).

The taste of truth is bitter. | You can lead an idiot to
knowledge, but you cannot make him think.

[This message has been edited by Screamer (edited April 02, 2002
on 03:47 PM).]

The beauty of the world has two edges, one of laughter, one of anguish, cutting
the heart asunder.
Virginia Woolf

Posted by sparky_nz on 04-03-2002 03:32 AM:

Where can I get the bugfix from?

mmm toast

SWTA - Play it

Posted by SadisticSid on 04-03-2002 05:03 AM:

Nanoshielding should not even come into this debate, unless you think that
leaving wreckage around your base to block enemy fire is ‘morally wrong’ too. =/

Sid.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Posted by A_Novice_ToS on 04-03-2002 07:50 AM:

No sid thats not quite what he means - the debate over nano-shielding is the
fact that an un-built structure can stop things like bertha shells - which when
you think about it, is a bit stupid.

Posted by Screamer on 04-03-2002 10:06 AM:

I don’t think it is - the armor of that nanolathe frame is proportional to the
percentage paid of its cost, splash damage can still be dealt beyond it, and it
takes a huge amount of micro to consistently shield something for any length of
time. Not to mention shots sometimes seem to go past the lathe frame too…

The taste of truth is bitter. | You can lead an idiot to
knowledge, but you cannot make him think.

The beauty of the world has two edges, one of laughter, one of anguish, cutting
the heart asunder.
Virginia Woolf

Posted by PelvisRocks on 04-03-2002 11:02 AM:

“it takes a huge amount of micro to consistently shield something for any length
of time”- Not always :-), A proxy server cheat could intercept packets and order
your cmdr where to place a windmill or metal storage so that it will perfectly
stop each bertha shell as it was fired. The cheating program gets all the data
it needs before the event actually registers in your game so that you can take
action in advance. Proxy cheats are the most common type of cheating in FPS
games. Game development publications spend lots of time on cheating because it
can so quickly ruin the sales of a perfectly good game.

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by A_Novice_ToS on 04-03-2002 03:56 PM:

Screamer i agree about the armour it gives being proportional to how much of it
is built, but if you consider how fragile a wind generator is, and think of the
fact thats its only a tiny amount of the nano-bots that are in the way - should
it really be able to stop a Bertha shell? I think in real life the effect of the
nano-lathing would make the structure more like a liquid - and as such the shell
would pass though it. However - ingame i think its yet another great trick that
can separate the men from the boys

Posted by xRelativityx007 on 04-03-2002 06:27 PM:

Lol, newkid’s attempt to look intelligent is rather amusing.

Hmm, you pick up a book on visual basic (IMO a programming langauge for dummies)
or you learn the basics of C++ and you think you’re an expert coder huh?

A moho bug is not directly related to OOP.

Sigh, Visual Basic has unleashed a whole onslaught of drag-and-drop newbies that
think they are experts and programming

[This message has been edited by xRelativityx007 (edited April
03, 2002 on 07:29 PM).]

Posted by PelvisRocks on 04-03-2002 07:23 PM:

Newkid never said he knew how to program. With the demorecorder the Wind or
metal storage is indistructible for 3 seconds, right? So, with that, there is
nothing related to investment for 3 seconds.

[This message has been edited by PelvisRocks (edited April 04,
2002 on 12:50 AM).]

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by NewKid on 04-04-2002 03:22 AM:

I was already coding when you didn’t know what a comp was This kind of bug
smells OOP…

Could be not related, but well, I don’t care

(Maybe you think OOP is a “drag & drop” thing…? “Object” meaning then “visual
object” or something like that?)

[This message has been edited by NewKid (edited April 04, 2002 on
05:41 AM).]

Some chicken! Some neck!

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xpoy0 · 2009 年9 月 14 日 16:07

Posted by Screamer on 04-04-2002 08:42 AM:

LOL

NewKid, I warned you not to open your trap again if you didn’t want to be
embarrassed… oh well.

Right, I didn’t think about the demorecorder… doh, yeah, it makes it
indestructible for 3 seconds… More likely to be a problem for Guardian duels
than BB supression fire, in fact. But… yeah…

And bringing a proxy into play is taking the argument way beyond what it’s
about, Mr. Pelvis.

The taste of truth is bitter. | You can lead an idiot to
knowledge, but you cannot make him think.

The beauty of the world has two edges, one of laughter, one of anguish, cutting
the heart asunder.
Virginia Woolf

Posted by PelvisRocks on 04-05-2002 12:57 PM:

Screamer- LOL, I am glad you are monitoring this thread so carefully. We were
off topic 5 pages ago.

Page 9, Whoop!

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by DOGGY on 04-05-2002 03:04 PM:

off topic for 9 pages now, who cares?

to the nano-shield:
if that was a bug it would mean, that a bertha shell should be able to penetrate
weak-amored builings. The shell does x amount damage and the wind has y amount
armor. The excess energy shouldnt vanish in nirvana in ur theory, but go through
the wind and hit another building behind it.
That isnt the fact.
So, in that logic, nanoshielding cant be a bug, since any shell will be blocked
by any kind of obstacle.

I will point out another “bug” which i have mentioned earlier in that thread
(no1 cared, sigh, i always gotta insult ppl if i want them to listen to me)
u can see wreckage, plants and rocks even without los. u can see where ur
opponent reclaims and u can see if he shoots his plants to suck them. u can even
see if ur bb has killed the wished unit, or not. Sigh…

And units can track other units even if they are out of radar. U know, that good
old gnug-tip: defender, aim at commander, press shift and u know where the
commander is…)

and newkid, i guess screamer is right in that case

Posted by Xavier on 04-06-2002 12:42 AM:

if u couldn’t nanoshield… that is, if partly built things didn’t take damage,
then umm well u couldn’t bomb someones bb right b4 it finishes and stuff like
that - it would change the game quite a lot i think - and not in a good way. and
umm i don’t use the recorder and i can nanoshield just as well as when i play at
lans on comps that have the recorder so i really don’t think it makes that much
difference.

[This message has been edited by Xavier (edited April 06, 2002 on
01:43 AM).]

Posted by Screamer on 04-06-2002 07:34 AM:

U know, that good old gnug-tip: defender, aim at commander, press shift and u know where the commander is...)

I'm afraid that's incorrect. The attack marker will not follow a unit outside your LOS. What the Gnug tip said is to lock two MTs on the Comm, preferrably ones that are a bit apart. You can then triangulate the opponent Comm's position by following where the MTs turn to.

The attack marker however will stay at the last point you saw the unit.

The taste of truth is bitter. | You can lead an idiot to
knowledge, but you cannot make him think.

The beauty of the world has two edges, one of laughter, one of anguish, cutting
the heart asunder.
Virginia Woolf

Posted by DOGGY on 04-06-2002 11:32 AM:

hmm, i gotta test that.
As far as i know the “red-cross” doesnt track movements, but it shows the
position if u deselect the defender and select it again…

Posted by PelvisRocks on 04-07-2002 06:42 PM:

Xavier, it(demorecorder fixall) makes 3 seconds of difference. It really would
help if you read this thread. You seem to have lots of opinions backed up by
very few facts.

Doggy- I didn’t say nanoshielding was a bug. That is the sort of confusion an
off-topic discussion can cause. I would call it a “side- effect”

[This message has been edited by PelvisRocks (edited April 07,
2002 on 07:12 PM).]

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by BTU_S_hollo_S on 04-08-2002 07:22 PM:

hmm lots of posts i read the first page on here; i wonder if anyone said the
real way to get a nuke to go past an anti nuke… you need 2 in the silo, get it
started out on the launch pad; then… say you have 4 peewees in a line… share
1 of them so you have 3 left; targtet the peewee with the nuke, it launches,
kill the shared peewee b4 the nuke reaches it and poof you gotta spinning nuke
that is so fast it can’t be hit by anti nukes, launch yer second one and poof
you gotta unhittable nuke
kthx

sl4v3 t0 w0m3n

Posted by BTU_S_hollo_S on 04-08-2002 07:22 PM:

btw is using the Phalanx trick a cheat? Or no, It requires quite a bit of unit
control but it is devestating =)

sl4v3 t0 w0m3n

xpoy0 · 2009 年9 月 14 日 16:07

Posted by PelvisRocks on 04-08-2002 10:29 PM:

Cool Shollos, does that always work? That is not the method I alluded to. I
guess it is important that the peewee be within enemy anti-nuke range? I have
seen 2 nukes circling endlessly until anti-nukes were made. I never knew this
could be exploited to get a nuke in. I would guess depending on the spread of
anti nukes , one may shoot them down sooner or later. Correct me please. Someone
said this circling bug is because the missles are modeled after merls.

The phalanx trick used against pelicans? I never could make it devistating.

[This message has been edited by PelvisRocks (edited April 08,
2002 on 10:31 PM).]

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by Screamer on 04-09-2002 07:01 AM:

I don’t like the Phalanx trick personally… the way it works falls in the same
category as the MMM sparking

The taste of truth is bitter. | You can lead an idiot to
knowledge, but you cannot make him think.

The beauty of the world has two edges, one of laughter, one of anguish, cutting
the heart asunder.
Virginia Woolf

Posted by DOGGY on 04-09-2002 10:11 AM:

at least the mmm bug does work

Posted by BTU_S_hollo_S on 04-09-2002 02:17 PM:

cougH phalanx ownz flashes cough

sl4v3 t0 w0m3n

Posted by tau’ri01 on 04-09-2002 03:37 PM:

Whats the phlanx trick then? Unless im being dumb and someone already said it in
which case i should read more closely…

Its something unpredictable, but in the end is right…

Posted by Reiff on 04-09-2002 07:39 PM:

Pelvis, you seem to be misinformed. The feature .fixall of the recorder only
works with factories. That is why you can get a few skeeters out of a shipyard
with the com’s help while they’re being hit by missiles (floating defenders,
skeet missiles).
There’s two features in .fixall. The first is .fixfacexps, which applies the 3
second rule to factories, the second is .fixdt (or something like that), which
makes sure that no DT’s are left as missing packets between you and your enemy.

“My country is the world. My religion is good.” - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Posted by The Barbar on 04-09-2002 09:46 PM:

Phalanx bug is used by gaurding a unit under attack with a phalanx, it will
return fire with its flak. Ive tried to find a good way to use this, but the
cost of the flakkers are way too much to be productive

Posted by BTU_S_hollo_S on 04-09-2002 09:56 PM:

they are there to replace immolators!!! Really really they are… and hawks
are there to replace metal patches too!!! m ua hahaa haah

note the lack of seriousness…

sl4v3 t0 w0m3n

Posted by Forklift on 04-09-2002 11:47 PM:

Shollos, what exactly happens to those “spinning nukes”? Do they just circle a
few times and drop, like Merl rockets? because the problems of having that
happen are obvious.

“There is no greater oppressor than someone who thinks they are being
oppressed.” --Richard L. Davis, mensnewsdaily.com

Posted by Xavier on 04-10-2002 02:00 AM:

lmao pelvis

my opinions are backed up by personal experience - if u can find a better way to
back up an opinion i’d like to know what it is.

p.s. ur wrong and i’m right

Posted by BTU_S_hollo_S on 04-10-2002 10:16 AM:

yeah they are like merls they will spin for like 25 seconds or so then crash
randomly; depends how soon the peewee died and how far or close the nuke was
launched…

sl4v3 t0 w0m3n

Posted by PelvisRocks on 04-10-2002 10:54 AM:

Reiff- Which feature of the recorder gives a started structure 3 seconds of
invinsibility? This was discussed earlier in the thread. Maybe Screamer was the
one that talked about it.

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by Reiff on 04-10-2002 01:30 PM:

Dude I said them… “The first is .fixfacexps, which applies the 3 second rule
to factories.” There is nothing that gives structures invinsibility, and I don’t
know anything about any invinsible buildings…

“My country is the world. My religion is good.” - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Posted by PelvisRocks on 04-10-2002 03:15 PM:

Well, look in the thread and you will see people talking about that and
nanoshielding.

Reiff, check Fnordia’s statement below. I guess I was correct. .fixall turns all
those features on.

[This message has been edited by PelvisRocks (edited April 11,
2002 on 01:30 PM).]

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by Screamer on 04-10-2002 03:16 PM:

Actually, the spinning nuke is even meaner than you may think from reading this:
the enemy antinukes will keep firing antinukes at it, which are likely to all
miss. It is quite probable that a single spinning nuke will drain your
opponent’s entire supply of antis. And it gets quite affordable if you use the
much cheaper Stunner missiles…

The taste of truth is bitter. | You can lead an idiot to
knowledge, but you cannot make him think.

The beauty of the world has two edges, one of laughter, one of anguish, cutting
the heart asunder.
Virginia Woolf

Posted by Fnordia on 04-10-2002 03:27 PM:

Here’s how it works:

.fixfacexps - Gives all newly created units and buildings 3 seconds of
invulnerability.

.fixdt - Makes TA send DT packets reliably.

.fixall turns on both these.

Posted by Vali on 04-10-2002 05:59 PM:

Yep, spining nuke get’s your anty nukes gone faster then you can say: WHAT THE
F*** WHERE ARE MY ANTI!!!

Lost 1 Nuke war to this…
BUT, eventualy, your anti will hit it, but you will lose 5 or 6 of them on 1
missile…
That sucks.
I think “.fixall” kind of sucks…
I was fighting a guy and he woud build ALOT of A.K.s (I had a few sams and that
flash counter)
So, usualy they woud be dead faster then they build, but the darn 3 sec made
them be able to land a few shots on me before they died…

xpoy0 · 2009 年9 月 14 日 16:08

Posted by Screamer on 04-11-2002 07:44 AM:

You mean - they were built and arrived in your base and fired a shot - all in
less than 3 seconds?

The taste of truth is bitter. | You can lead an idiot to
knowledge, but you cannot make him think.

The beauty of the world has two edges, one of laughter, one of anguish, cutting
the heart asunder.
Virginia Woolf

Posted by PelvisRocks on 04-11-2002 01:28 PM:

Thanks, Fnordia. I am glad you cleared things up for Rieff.

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by A_Novice_ToS on 04-11-2002 02:41 PM:

Uhm actually Pelvis if you read what you said earlier you were wrong and Reiff
was right.
.fixall affects all factories but NO other structures except dragons teeth. This
is what Reiff said…kinda simple isnt it?

Posted by BTU_S_hollo_S on 04-11-2002 05:38 PM:

Sucks to not read full posts =)

sl4v3 t0 w0m3n

Posted by PelvisRocks on 04-11-2002 06:49 PM:

Fnordia- “.fixall turns on both these.” I dont claim to know the innards of the
Demorecorder but I am sure Fnordia does. So, that would make me right and Reiff
wrong in saying it only applies to factories.
Novice- Not simple enough for you. :Reiff- “There is nothing that gives
structures invinsibility, and I don’t know anything about any invinsible
buildings…”

Reading is fundamental. LOL
(Nothing personal Reiff, I appriciate your input, but fixall does it all by
calling other programs or macros or whatever. I used fixall as a shorthand and
didnt know the names of the other .fix it calls)

Screamer- “I don’t like the Phalanx trick personally… the way it works falls in
the same category as the MMM sparking” - I disagree, it is different enough to
be a possible bug but to pass the ethical test. I did feel cheated when it was
used against me.

you have to completely build the phalanx and pay both time and metal for it.
You cannot determine intent. Maybe the guy accidently had the phalanx guard
another unit.
The mmm never has to be completed. Although it is cheap, it has a long build
time. Once you spark it you will reap the benefits of it throughout the game
while never actually finishing the build process.(if you choose)

So, for the slow readers(Novice and President Bush)- Phalanx - Goood, MMM
sparking - Baaaad.

xpoy0 · 2009 年9 月 14 日 16:09

[This message has been edited by PelvisRocks (edited April 11,
2002 on 07:20 PM).]

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by sloppyjoe on 04-11-2002 08:03 PM:

Phalanx - Goood, MMM sparking - Baaaad

Somehow I think Novice and everybody else here has got your point over the last
100 posts or so. Not that you pay attention anyway.

(me expects inevitable Pelvis reply)

Posted by BTU_S_hollo_S on 04-11-2002 11:46 PM:

he is tryiung to say waht is cheating and waht is not… how about… everyone
ignores pelvis, because they themselves have they’re own guidelines to what
cheating is and what a flaw in a game is.
kthx pwned again.

sl4v3 t0 w0m3n

Posted by PelvisRocks on 04-12-2002 12:15 AM:

Joe- “(me expects inevitable Pelvis reply)” Yeah, I thought that was funny.
Sometimes I feel like I should apologize for making fun of retarded people. I
guess it is just a reading comprehension problem.
Bush was governor of a state that was ranked 48th* in education when he started
and 48th when he became President. Yet, he was called the education governor. By
the time you graduate high school you should be able to read and write complete
sentences.

Noone knew my opinion on the Phalanx, so, I feel free to express my views, as
Screamer did.

Newspeak- “kthx pwned again.” translates: “Okay, thanks. Owned again.” ?

*there are 50 states in the United States.

[This message has been edited by PelvisRocks (edited April 12,
2002 on 01:25 AM).]

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by Xavier on 04-12-2002 01:30 AM:

as i said earlier - i play on comps both with and without the recorder and
fixall etc - and i have found absolutely no difference in the effectiveness of
nanoshielding either way.

p.s. i have long since stopped caring (if i ever did) about changing anyones
mind - but hey - arguing is hella fun

Posted by BTU_Weston on 04-12-2002 06:52 AM:

Its not cheating unless: you break rules that were agreed to before the game,
you use a 3rd party device to cheat, or you change game settings at the last
second before the other player or players has the opportunity to unclick “Go?”.
Who’s to say what a bug is and what’s not a bug? There’s some grey area. I mean
offscreen bombing isn’t a bug in my book. When Cavedog released 3.1 I do believe
they were aware that bombers could go offscreen and potentially in effect avoid
AA fire, but they didn’t change that or at least maybe planned on waiting to
change it. Its far too obvious to be called “a bug”. Bugs are more elusive than
that. However, I do think force-firing a Metal Moho Maker is, for example. Since
Cavedog is gone and no new patches will be released to remedy the remaining
quirks in TA, I think you shouldn’t blame players for playing the game as it is.
Whether or not it’s a bug is irrelevent I believe. Its up to the individual
player to decide what is and what is not good gaming morals, and then to express
those to people that they are about to play before hand so an agreement can be
reached. But there is no official, all encompassing, TA edicts (as much as
people, namely ThinkTank, want to fill this void by imposing their own
philosophies on others by making them feel guilty for using “bugs”, which are
defined EXTREMELY loosely). Point and case: Its TA 3.1 not TA 3.whatifeellike.
By the way, this was a reply to opening post, not the last post.

[This message has been edited by BTU_Weston (edited April 12,
2002 on 07:12 AM).]

Posted by sloppyjoe on 04-12-2002 09:00 AM:

Joe- "(me expects inevitable Pelvis reply)" Yeah, I thought that was funny. Sometimes I feel like I should apologize for making fun of retarded people. I guess it is just a reading comprehension problem. Bush was governor of a state that was ranked 48th* in education when he started and 48th when he became President. Yet, he was called the education governor. By the time you graduate high school you should be able to read and write complete sentences.

Perhaps it was sarcasm you failed to realize, or we did that just to speak at a
level you would understand. In any case it’s obvious you are in a losing
argument and you have nothing better to do than perpetuate this thread by
flaming every person who points that out.

And personally, I think President Bush is incompetent myself. However, I’m not
from Texas and since education funding is controlled mainly at the state level
(since you obviously don’t know that) I couldn’t care less. In any case, there
can’t be too much wrong with our educational system as a whole since we have the
highest ranking colleges and international students flock to our ivy-clad walls
for a chance at a quality education. So please keep your penis envy towards our
country towards yourself and stick to your argument if you must persist. Thank
you

[This message has been edited by sloppyjoe (edited April 12, 2002
on 10:38 AM).]

Posted by A_Novice_ToS on 04-12-2002 10:28 AM:

OMFG pelvis are you a total spastic or what???
You said earlier that .fixall makes STRUCTURES invulnerable - and IT DOES NOT.
Reiff corrects you, you then disagree with him, Fnordia comes along and also
tells you that .fixall only affects the units in the plant, NO structures yet
again. Somehow in your limit knowledge you think he was agreeing with you
(although he basically told you you were wrong) so i again inform you that you
are incorrect so now i dont know how to read?
CUMMON read yourself ffs.

Posted by BTU_S_hollo_S on 04-12-2002 11:56 AM:

ummm newspeak? nah, its pretty fluent among the largely populated games other
than ta…
It means; (to me), ok…shutup; you are’t worth my breathe, and good game
because people who suck make for an easy one

sl4v3 t0 w0m3n

Posted by Annihilater2k1 on 04-12-2002 11:57 AM:

I tried that spinning nuke trick and i must say that it is EVIL.

The weak have one weapon, the over-confidence of those who think they are
strong.

xpoy0 · 2009 年9 月 14 日 16:09

Posted by PelvisRocks on 04-12-2002 12:22 PM:

Novice: Fnordia- “.fixfacexps - Gives all newly created units and buildings 3
seconds of invulnerability.”“.fixall turns on both these.”
Notice the word ALL. If I have misunderstood the term ALL , I hope Fnordia will
correct me.

Sloppyjoe- “since education funding is controlled mainly at the state level
(since you obviously don’t know that) I couldn’t care less” - Well, I do know
that and as Governor he controlled that. That was my point and it would be clear
to a 6th grade reading level student.If you are American, you should care,
because he now influences the national budget for education. There are very few
state grade schools that don’t get Federal funding. I am surprised you know so
little about this. Universities are funded very differently and may be full of
foriegners because Americans are so poorly educated that they can’t qualify.

Sloppyjoe-“flaming every person” - I think most readers would consider my
replies very reserved. I certainly didn’t start the flaming here, or on any
other threads, and my taunts are so subtlized that most don’t even know I am
making fun of them. I wish people had responded to this thread with valid
arguments, instead of flames.

Sloppyjoe- “So please keep your penis envy towards our country”- I am not sure
what your sexual inadequacies have to do with it, but I was born in the USA.

> Page 10! I feel a Buzzsaw rank coming!

[This message has been edited by PelvisRocks (edited April 12,
2002 on 12:47 PM).]

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by Reiff on 04-12-2002 01:22 PM:

Pelvis, I don’t know you, but you are definately giving me a bad impression by
this thread alone… “Reiff, check Fnordia’s statement below. I guess I was
correct. .fixall turns all those features on.”

I’m speaking purely from experience, nothing against fnordia or anything. There
is 0 difference in nano-shielding with or without the recorder.

“My country is the world. My religion is good.” - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Posted by sloppyjoe on 04-12-2002 01:28 PM:

Of course, what was I thinking.

You know more than anybody here does. Besides, it’s not like you spend all your
time having to refute every sensible point made by even the most elite players
in the TA community “who should know better”. We should take your advice and
feel ashamed just because you told them so.

BTW, I seriously doubt you were born in this country unless you were
home-schooled. Many foreigners I’ve seen we’re already educated in primary
schools in this country and don’t have many complaints. Love it or leave it. The
Democrats in Congress are smart enough not to let Dubya touch the education
budget, that should be clear to any sixth grader. I’m surprised you know so
little about this, yada yada yada

Anyway, and your transferrence of your obvious penis envy is a clear indication
of how you refuse to accept the fact that you have antagonized the best players
here and how you need to feel smarter or superior, no matter how superficial
that feeling is.

I am seriously enjoying each ridiculous post you make in order to justify
yourself, considering that most people think it’s wrong (and I do think most of
them have a pretty damn good education). Just keep posting towards that buzzsaw.
I have better things to do than point out every one of the numerous grammatical
mistakes you made, indicating your obvious omniscience.

Posted by PelvisRocks on 04-12-2002 04:07 PM:

I base my knowledge of nanoshielding and the fixall demorecorder !completely! on
what was said in this thread. I trust Fnordia as he is as close to SY as you can
get. From what I read here a nanoshield is 3 seconds invinsible if .fixall is
executed. A YS could quickly say I am wrong but the impression I got was that
ALL things that can be built can have 3 seconds of invinsibility. Every time I
read Fnordia’s comment I confirm this. Every time I read Reiff’s comment I am
sure it says the opposite of Fnordia. I don’t see how I can be any clearer. I
also agree that Reiff is correct about what .fix calls are made by .fixall just
not the effect he proposes.

Sloppyjoe-“You know more than anybody here does.” Thanks, but I never claimed
that and have made comments related to that. I have claimed to take the ethical
high ground, where others have not.

Sloppyjoe-“I have better things to do than point out every one of the numerous
grammatical mistakes you made, indicating your obvious omniscience” - this just
makes me laugh and wonder if you have a dictionary.(Feel free to give examples,
I correct my posts.)

As far as being superior to some of you, I guess fair play would be a superior
quality.

For the record, The nuke trick Shollos discussed is not cheating but so lame
that it is the first argument(not that he intended that) to my ethical test that
gives me concern. I could not call it cheating based on my ethical test but it
is extremely unfair and lame.

[This message has been edited by PelvisRocks (edited April 12,
2002 on 04:53 PM).]

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

xpoy0 · 2009 年9 月 14 日 16:09

Posted by Reiff on 04-12-2002 07:03 PM:

Well pelvis I’ve found the problem right there. You’re not basing anything you
say about TA from experience, whereas many of the experienced TA players
(Shollos, Joe, and I to name a few) are speaking purely from experience in TA.
Maybe you shouldn’t go around analyzing and taking up other people’s statements
as your arguments (favoring one person’s word over another’s). After all, why is
a person that doesn’t play TA (as much as pic shollos joe and I at least) in a
thread discussing ADVANCED strategies, and even trying to refute our statements?

“My country is the world. My religion is good.” - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Posted by PelvisRocks on 04-12-2002 09:18 PM:

Reiff - As I pointed out, non-ta players can still identify cheating. That is
why my skill, frequency of play, gender, sexual preference, penis size, are all
irrelevent, as much as you and your friends wish they were.

I limited my knowledge of the recorder to this thread for the sake of argument.
I actually had functional knowledge of the recorder before I ever posted here.

Reiff, you may want to spend your time finding a SY to back up your conclusions
about the 3 second invinsibility of all structures and units.

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by BTU_Weston on 04-13-2002 04:35 AM:

.fixall only effects the nanos INSIDE the factory and does something else with
DT that i am not totally aware of. it has no effect on anything else. thats
probably why its called .fixfacexps meaning factory explosions. and NON-TA
players can barely identity the flouring TA box wtf are you talking about?

[This message has been edited by BTU_Weston (edited April 13,
2002 on 04:38 AM).]

Posted by Reiff on 04-13-2002 09:14 AM:

No, your frequency of play and the fact that you’re basing your argument on
complete hear-say is COMPLETELY relevant. This is an advanced strategy forum,
and people that don’t play TA have no business being here, and even less
business arguing with people that frequently play TA.

And how the hell can someone who doesn’t play TA still identify cheating? Or
even care about cheating in a game they don’t play?

“My country is the world. My religion is good.” - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Posted by PelvisRocks on 04-13-2002 12:30 PM:

Reiff- “And how the hell can someone who doesn’t play TA still identify
cheating? Or even care about cheating in a game they don’t play?” - Glad you
asked! I lat a few friends that dont play games read a description of each bug
and the techniques used to exploit them to see which they identified as cheating
an what arguments they had to support this. Their conclusions were very much in
line with mine and some of the experts on this thread. They were able to draw
conclusions with just the descriptions of the unit use and movement. I don’t
think is is very important. It was just an experiment. They are well versed in
philosophy. My conlusions may be more important because I have actually been
cheated. As far as irrelevance, I only need to be cheated once.

I find it interesting that because you have no arguments about the subject of
the thread you like to pick some detail or wording of each post.

I am still waiting for Fnordia to clarify his post as so many are now saying he
is wrong. Any SY will do. BTW, My experience is that .fixall does not save you
from cancellation of structure build starts, but that is subjective and I will
trust those who know the workings of the DR over what I may think I see in a
game. At least two different “experts” have said that .fixall gives any unit 3
seconds of invinsibility in this thread.

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by BTU_Weston on 04-13-2002 01:38 PM:

i got 2 questions… 1: how stupid will you feel when you are proven wrong? 2:
will you STFU after you are proven wrong?

as far as you saying anyone can identify cheating. NO. anyone can THINK they
identified cheating. thats why there’s newbies on ZONE accusing experts of
cheating because they cant possibly comprehend how to play the game or how they
got owned so badly. sound familiar? oops three questions!

[This message has been edited by BTU_Weston (edited April 13,
2002 on 01:44 PM).]

Posted by PelvisRocks on 04-13-2002 02:51 PM:

As I said, my experience with fixall is the same as yours but 2 or 3 people ,
including a SY say the 3 second feature affects ALL units and structures.

No, so stop asking.

[This message has been edited by PelvisRocks (edited April 13,
2002 on 02:56 PM).]

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

xpoy0 · 2009 年9 月 14 日 16:09

Posted by Xavier on 04-13-2002 04:30 PM:

and i refuse to believe the sun rises in the east till god himself tells me!
even tho i and everyone i have talked to have seen this for ourselves!

Posted by PelvisRocks on 04-13-2002 07:03 PM:

Xavier- That is an excellent example of a “fallacy of argument”.

In an effort to help you understand that some of your arguments are not that at
all:
http://ethics.acusd.edu/Courses/log…3_2/tsld044.htm

[This message has been edited by PelvisRocks (edited April 14,
2002 on 06:51 AM).]

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by Xavier on 04-14-2002 03:22 AM:

it was your argument with the frame of reference altered. if u wanna call it
fallacy thats up to you.

Posted by Screamer on 04-15-2002 07:08 AM:

Xavier: “page not found” happens because the part of the script that decides
which page to send you to just sends you to page ( nr.of.last.post /
posts.per.page ), without taking deleted posts into account which mean that post
#100 does not necessarily have to be 100th post on the thread. You just have to
edit the URL - make -4.html into -3.html f.ex.

BlackFlag: as Fnordia replied, .fixall does give
all units exactly 3 seconds of invulnerability.

But like Reiff said, it really makes hardly any difference in nanoshielding, if
at all. It certainly doesn’t really matter in shielding from BB fire. Maybe in
Guardian duels it can sometimes make a bit of a difference because they fire
that fast…

The taste of truth is bitter. | You can lead an idiot to
knowledge, but you cannot make him think.

The beauty of the world has two edges, one of laughter, one of anguish, cutting
the heart asunder.
Virginia Woolf

Posted by PelvisRocks on 04-15-2002 01:01 PM:

Reiff- Read this and you will understand how I was “misinformed”:

Screamer states:“BlackFlag: as Fnordia replied, .fixall does give all units
exactly 3 seconds of invulnerability.”

Note the the word ALL.

Weston- Now we know where I got the info and you will “STFU” as you requested of
me.

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by Forklift on 04-15-2002 11:29 PM:

this thread is still going. lol

“There is no greater oppressor than someone who thinks they are being
oppressed.” --Richard L. Davis, mensnewsdaily.com

Posted by BTU_S_hollo_S on 04-19-2002 01:36 AM:

the person who umm started it sucks… thats all i know and i hardly even
frequent this place.
blah

sl4v3 t0 w0m3n

Posted by BTU_Weston on 04-19-2002 01:35 PM:

yea all units in the factory…

Posted by crusier on 04-24-2002 12:30 PM:
hmm… the path to ‘features’ is guided by the darkside of the force; in
otherwords carefull of what you look
for!

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xpoy0 · 2009 年9 月 15 日 16:33

Posted by Screamer on 04-04-2002 08:42 AM:

LOL

NewKid, I warned you not to open your trap again if you didn’t want to be
embarrassed… oh well.

Right, I didn’t think about the demorecorder… doh, yeah, it makes it
indestructible for 3 seconds… More likely to be a problem for Guardian duels
than BB supression fire, in fact. But… yeah…

And bringing a proxy into play is taking the argument way beyond what it’s
about, Mr. Pelvis.

The taste of truth is bitter. | You can lead an idiot to
knowledge, but you cannot make him think.

The beauty of the world has two edges, one of laughter, one of anguish, cutting
the heart asunder.
Virginia Woolf

Posted by PelvisRocks on 04-05-2002 12:57 PM:

Screamer- LOL, I am glad you are monitoring this thread so carefully. We were
off topic 5 pages ago.

Page 9, Whoop!

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by DOGGY on 04-05-2002 03:04 PM:

off topic for 9 pages now, who cares?

to the nano-shield:
if that was a bug it would mean, that a bertha shell should be able to penetrate
weak-amored builings. The shell does x amount damage and the wind has y amount
armor. The excess energy shouldnt vanish in nirvana in ur theory, but go through
the wind and hit another building behind it.
That isnt the fact.
So, in that logic, nanoshielding cant be a bug, since any shell will be blocked
by any kind of obstacle.

I will point out another “bug” which i have mentioned earlier in that thread
(no1 cared, sigh, i always gotta insult ppl if i want them to listen to me)
u can see wreckage, plants and rocks even without los. u can see where ur
opponent reclaims and u can see if he shoots his plants to suck them. u can even
see if ur bb has killed the wished unit, or not. Sigh…

And units can track other units even if they are out of radar. U know, that good
old gnug-tip: defender, aim at commander, press shift and u know where the
commander is…)

and newkid, i guess screamer is right in that case

Posted by Xavier on 04-06-2002 12:42 AM:

if u couldn’t nanoshield… that is, if partly built things didn’t take damage,
then umm well u couldn’t bomb someones bb right b4 it finishes and stuff like
that - it would change the game quite a lot i think - and not in a good way. and
umm i don’t use the recorder and i can nanoshield just as well as when i play at
lans on comps that have the recorder so i really don’t think it makes that much
difference.

[This message has been edited by Xavier (edited April 06, 2002 on
01:43 AM).]

Posted by Screamer on 04-06-2002 07:34 AM:

U know, that good old gnug-tip: defender, aim at commander, press shift and u know where the commander is...)

I'm afraid that's incorrect. The attack marker will not follow a unit outside your LOS. What the Gnug tip said is to lock two MTs on the Comm, preferrably ones that are a bit apart. You can then triangulate the opponent Comm's position by following where the MTs turn to.

The attack marker however will stay at the last point you saw the unit.

The taste of truth is bitter. | You can lead an idiot to
knowledge, but you cannot make him think.

The beauty of the world has two edges, one of laughter, one of anguish, cutting
the heart asunder.
Virginia Woolf

Posted by DOGGY on 04-06-2002 11:32 AM:

hmm, i gotta test that.
As far as i know the “red-cross” doesnt track movements, but it shows the
position if u deselect the defender and select it again…

Posted by PelvisRocks on 04-07-2002 06:42 PM:

Xavier, it(demorecorder fixall) makes 3 seconds of difference. It really would
help if you read this thread. You seem to have lots of opinions backed up by
very few facts.

Doggy- I didn’t say nanoshielding was a bug. That is the sort of confusion an
off-topic discussion can cause. I would call it a “side- effect”

[This message has been edited by PelvisRocks (edited April 07,
2002 on 07:12 PM).]

I was PelvisPressMe in a past life.

Posted by BTU_S_hollo_S on 04-08-2002 07:22 PM:

hmm lots of posts i read the first page on here; i wonder if anyone said the
real way to get a nuke to go past an anti nuke… you need 2 in the silo, get it
started out on the launch pad; then… say you have 4 peewees in a line… share
1 of them so you have 3 left; targtet the peewee with the nuke, it launches,
kill the shared peewee b4 the nuke reaches it and poof you gotta spinning nuke
that is so fast it can’t be hit by anti nukes, launch yer second one and poof
you gotta unhittable nuke
kthx

sl4v3 t0 w0m3n